The problem is that "jazz" is way too broad a term, encompassing everything from Derek Bailey and Art Ensemble of Chicago, through Trad and Big Band, Charlie Parker and Miles Davies , to George Benson, Sarah Vaughan and (god help me) Kenny G.
It's like asking someone what "classical music" means to them — is their answer engendered by Bach, Mozart, Wagner, Stockhausen, Pärt, Reich, Nancarrow or Macmillan?
Or "pop"... you get the idea — you'll likely get as many answers as the descriptor encompasses.
It's some sort of corollary of "mu" — "unask the question", because it can't get a meaningful answer (see, eg, Robert M. Pirsig's "Zen & The Art...")
Speaking as one of those inscrutable youngsters you like to study, I can offer some insight. I’m a college student and I engineer a jazz radio show on our campus station. There are a lot more jazz enthusiasts than you might think among my age group! I love jazz and agree with you that it’s far more exciting and startling than “romantic”, but I think my peers have the perception that it’s the product of a bygone age, something quaint and charming like black and white movies. Also, it’s not at the forefront of counterculture how it used to be (no one is writing articles about the sinfulness of jazz today!) so it doesn’t have the appeal of rebelliousness that a lot of young people seek out in music. I think a lot of it is a matter of attention span too. 10 minute songs are implausible.
After reading this, I asked my 15 year old son, who is currently finalizing his audition piece for the “Jazz Lab” at his public high school, to use one word to describe jazz. He said “life” - because jazz has more “heart, soul and mind” than any other form of music. Granted, he’s probably not a typical 15 yr old; he’s been listening to Kind of Blue since age four, loves Jordu by Clifford Brown and listens to Headhunters by choice. But, he listens to a lot of other music typical for kids his age. If he can be an advocate for jazz among his peers, that’s progress.
Sex before marriage no longer has adverse physical consequences (pregnancy) but its emotional and social implications have vast and dangerous ones. The marriage convention helped protect single virginal women from having to judge between"dads and cads". Marriage not only protected her but assured males that his wife's children were HIS,not someone else's. (Unfortunately this is taken to extremes in some cultures and religions, by curbing women's freedom and confining them to private places). This is the bargain between the sexes, and it worked out amazingly well, not 100% but enough to allow the creation of societies and social arrangements that reduced conflict and enhanced personal relationships, i.e. the family. When there is a bond (love) between two people, usually man and woman, this lays the groundwork for a stable relationship that favors
offspring and the benefits of a long-term affinity to support and educate them. The western
practice of preserving marriage even with some infidelity has worked quite well. And those who tried to deny ir or disrupt it are generally not looked on as admirable: the Don Juans, the Fausts,
the Epstein's. Today's free unrestricted sexual liberty absolves males from their commitment and
takes away the shame of premarital sex from women. But this will not prove conducive to societal
stability or psychological and emotional sanity. It is counterevolutinary in its extreme, in removing
responsibility, commitment, empathy and the strong family bond that enables children to grow up
sane and socially responsible. We are starting to see the blow-back now with sexual confusion about identity (gender). The truly scary notion that we should allow teen agers to mutilate their
bodies just because they have some quite normal adolescent anxieties or peer pressure is arguably one of the most immoral human practices in history. We should all be scared about this and its potential to ruin the lives of many teenagers irrevocably.
Apr 15, 2023·edited Apr 15, 2023Liked by Ted Gioia
Great writing, as I always think when I read your essays, Ted Gioia—even though Gregorian Chant and polyphony are the only music I listen to any more. I used to listen to R&B and jazz when I wanted to be hip, and I got a smug kick from the sexual reference we believed was the origin of the name jazz (even though the origins of the word jazz are disputed), but I pursue other ambitions now. When I mentioned I met your brother Dana, sacred music scholar William Mahrt mentioned to me that you and he have had friendly interactions, so I'll bring up that he teaches jazz rhythms, and instruments like pianos, drums, saxophones, and cornets, have certain associations that don't belong in Mass. Jazz carries the same sensual associations into the minds of its listeners no matter what their religion. I know I am putting myself far outside the pale of edgy intellectual with-it-ness when I point out that jazz stirs up feelings that are usually better left unstirred . . . . What do you think of my heresy? :-) Your friendly- if-not-entirely-agreeing-with-you admirer.
"And it’s no surprise to me that people look for music to fill the gap in their lives. After all, music is still a reliable source of enchantment, even in a digital age."
My girlfriend grew up with very little romanticism in her dating life. Me being quite a few years older and remembering analog dating, I have tried to show her romantic gestures, but they don't seem to hit quite like sharing intimate music!
When I played for her Sleep Token's "The Summoning", with the end of the song being what I and others call "Sexy Metal", she couldn't take her eyes off of me, to say the least. I'm hoping this, and Jazz, in some weird way can help younger people find their way to a magic that was once well and truly alive. The world would be a much worse place if it was lost forever.
I took the time to watch the linked video of the talk at the Library of Congress and have now been introduced to Danto’s theory that art is no longer on a path of progression. Wow, it makes so much sense! That explains so much of what I’ve observed in classical music the last 30 years. I still see young composers striving to reach that next nebulous step of progression and failing to register with audiences.
Ted: I’ve written about what you term the “new jazz revival” and have visited swing dance halls loaded with young people. I have found myself asking, “Why are these folks dancing to music older than their grandparents (the geezers)??!”
Through action, they have answered my question. They say they don’t go there to “hook up,” but to dance. (The joy on their faces tells me the reason.) They have told me, “Swing music is a wonderful expression of the human spirit, especially in terrible times,” and “It’s almost a religious experience, I am so in the moment.”
The young folks on dance floors today dress for comfort, not romance. They go to rock-step and swing out. No high heels or haute-couture dresses in those places! And yes, plenty of new young bands have sprung up to accommodate the dancers.
So yes, jazz is “eternally young…a style of music alive in the moment….” These young folks make music/dance central to their lives—the cake, not the frosting. They all talk about their “community.” (“We go out in groups.”) I like to think they can bring their joy and community to this darkened world. Spread jazz dance across the land!
It is a conundrum to keep the beat alive in these hard times. Jazz may bring rebirth—but these days, the nation leans the other way. Many young folks are lost in the woods, just as the MAGA crowd live in a lie they don’t see. Thus, the disappointment in their voice. Without hope, enchantment vanishes.
My basic philosophy is that jazz music can open a wormhole through darkness. It’s about signifying—what Albert Murray calls the “riff-style lifestyle.” Murray has said, “Riff-style flexibility and an open disposition towards the vernacular underlie the incomparable endurance of black soulfulness or humanity.’” Maybe such bottom-up freedom brings its own enchantment.
In dance, we have signifying in action, a way to turn things around, swing them in another direction. When dance went out of jazz after WWII, we lost something. But some young folks are bringing it back. There is still hope!
Loren Eiseley has written, “I have seen a tree root burst a rockface on a mountain or slowly wrench aside the gateway of a forgotten city.” This natural truth, I think, could take us far.
I don't think a recording of jazz can be more than a souvenir of the experience of a live, relatively unamplified jazz performance. I love making records and do the best job I can, but music is more than any recording. It is a comment on what is happening in the world at that moment.
“If they grow up to become jazz fans, they just might buy one of my books.” If they grow up to become real jazz fans, they just might buy all of your books.
Hi Ted, thanks for another great article, I find myself having similar questions about my generation. When most people’s referents for jazz are La La Land, la vie en rose sound bites on tik tok or street performers in central park, it makes sense why they would associate jazz with romance. Funnily enough, the movie whiplash was my intro to jazz and for most of high school that’s what I thought it was. Only until I dug deeper into the music did I find what it was all about and now I think of jazz more in the way you described. Just for fun, here’s some replies to your questions from a young person’s perspective (22 yo): 1) young people love live music and seek it out all the time usually either at bars or clubs or shows of their favorite artists or bands when they’re in town, local band scenes are somewhat scarcer today, being a DJ is the hot thing 2) most gen z kids can pick out songs they like from bands from the 70s through the time of The Strokes but only the ones really into rock and its sub genres (all the way from jam bands to metal) could say who’s hot rn, personally I really like Loathe 3) anyone and everyone really, celebrities are going viral for missteps all the time but usually if they take themselves too seriously or are not self aware that creates a big target (think of the video of celebrities singing imagine) 4) i think most people my age love their parents music, there’s a real reverence and appreciation for 90s music in particular 5) I think everyone knows most K-pop is trash (at least modern K-pop, many already yearn for the older days when it was still good) that doesn’t detract from it being fun to listen and dance to 6) everyone knows Elvis but do they listen to him?… 7) definitely but will they listen to it instead of on their Spotify?… personally I love cds because that’s what my parents had I have my own collection that I listen when I drive Hope this was informative, cheers
It will be a sad day when folks cannot distinguish A.I. mashups of the greats from the real Sinatra, Davis, Vaughan, etc. Or maybe we're already there. Real music is more and more haute cuisine that must be studied to appreciate. Actually, it always was.
The problem is that "jazz" is way too broad a term, encompassing everything from Derek Bailey and Art Ensemble of Chicago, through Trad and Big Band, Charlie Parker and Miles Davies , to George Benson, Sarah Vaughan and (god help me) Kenny G.
It's like asking someone what "classical music" means to them — is their answer engendered by Bach, Mozart, Wagner, Stockhausen, Pärt, Reich, Nancarrow or Macmillan?
Or "pop"... you get the idea — you'll likely get as many answers as the descriptor encompasses.
It's some sort of corollary of "mu" — "unask the question", because it can't get a meaningful answer (see, eg, Robert M. Pirsig's "Zen & The Art...")
Speaking as one of those inscrutable youngsters you like to study, I can offer some insight. I’m a college student and I engineer a jazz radio show on our campus station. There are a lot more jazz enthusiasts than you might think among my age group! I love jazz and agree with you that it’s far more exciting and startling than “romantic”, but I think my peers have the perception that it’s the product of a bygone age, something quaint and charming like black and white movies. Also, it’s not at the forefront of counterculture how it used to be (no one is writing articles about the sinfulness of jazz today!) so it doesn’t have the appeal of rebelliousness that a lot of young people seek out in music. I think a lot of it is a matter of attention span too. 10 minute songs are implausible.
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After reading this, I asked my 15 year old son, who is currently finalizing his audition piece for the “Jazz Lab” at his public high school, to use one word to describe jazz. He said “life” - because jazz has more “heart, soul and mind” than any other form of music. Granted, he’s probably not a typical 15 yr old; he’s been listening to Kind of Blue since age four, loves Jordu by Clifford Brown and listens to Headhunters by choice. But, he listens to a lot of other music typical for kids his age. If he can be an advocate for jazz among his peers, that’s progress.
Sex before marriage no longer has adverse physical consequences (pregnancy) but its emotional and social implications have vast and dangerous ones. The marriage convention helped protect single virginal women from having to judge between"dads and cads". Marriage not only protected her but assured males that his wife's children were HIS,not someone else's. (Unfortunately this is taken to extremes in some cultures and religions, by curbing women's freedom and confining them to private places). This is the bargain between the sexes, and it worked out amazingly well, not 100% but enough to allow the creation of societies and social arrangements that reduced conflict and enhanced personal relationships, i.e. the family. When there is a bond (love) between two people, usually man and woman, this lays the groundwork for a stable relationship that favors
offspring and the benefits of a long-term affinity to support and educate them. The western
practice of preserving marriage even with some infidelity has worked quite well. And those who tried to deny ir or disrupt it are generally not looked on as admirable: the Don Juans, the Fausts,
the Epstein's. Today's free unrestricted sexual liberty absolves males from their commitment and
takes away the shame of premarital sex from women. But this will not prove conducive to societal
stability or psychological and emotional sanity. It is counterevolutinary in its extreme, in removing
responsibility, commitment, empathy and the strong family bond that enables children to grow up
sane and socially responsible. We are starting to see the blow-back now with sexual confusion about identity (gender). The truly scary notion that we should allow teen agers to mutilate their
bodies just because they have some quite normal adolescent anxieties or peer pressure is arguably one of the most immoral human practices in history. We should all be scared about this and its potential to ruin the lives of many teenagers irrevocably.
Oh, Sousa. You died. Jazz lives. (So does your own march music, so don’t be too sad,)
Great writing, as I always think when I read your essays, Ted Gioia—even though Gregorian Chant and polyphony are the only music I listen to any more. I used to listen to R&B and jazz when I wanted to be hip, and I got a smug kick from the sexual reference we believed was the origin of the name jazz (even though the origins of the word jazz are disputed), but I pursue other ambitions now. When I mentioned I met your brother Dana, sacred music scholar William Mahrt mentioned to me that you and he have had friendly interactions, so I'll bring up that he teaches jazz rhythms, and instruments like pianos, drums, saxophones, and cornets, have certain associations that don't belong in Mass. Jazz carries the same sensual associations into the minds of its listeners no matter what their religion. I know I am putting myself far outside the pale of edgy intellectual with-it-ness when I point out that jazz stirs up feelings that are usually better left unstirred . . . . What do you think of my heresy? :-) Your friendly- if-not-entirely-agreeing-with-you admirer.
"And it’s no surprise to me that people look for music to fill the gap in their lives. After all, music is still a reliable source of enchantment, even in a digital age."
My girlfriend grew up with very little romanticism in her dating life. Me being quite a few years older and remembering analog dating, I have tried to show her romantic gestures, but they don't seem to hit quite like sharing intimate music!
When I played for her Sleep Token's "The Summoning", with the end of the song being what I and others call "Sexy Metal", she couldn't take her eyes off of me, to say the least. I'm hoping this, and Jazz, in some weird way can help younger people find their way to a magic that was once well and truly alive. The world would be a much worse place if it was lost forever.
I suspect that when kids these days say "romantic" what they mean is "sentimental and therefore weak and vulnerable".
By contrast, crudity and sociopathy are celebrated as strength.
I took the time to watch the linked video of the talk at the Library of Congress and have now been introduced to Danto’s theory that art is no longer on a path of progression. Wow, it makes so much sense! That explains so much of what I’ve observed in classical music the last 30 years. I still see young composers striving to reach that next nebulous step of progression and failing to register with audiences.
Ted: I’ve written about what you term the “new jazz revival” and have visited swing dance halls loaded with young people. I have found myself asking, “Why are these folks dancing to music older than their grandparents (the geezers)??!”
Through action, they have answered my question. They say they don’t go there to “hook up,” but to dance. (The joy on their faces tells me the reason.) They have told me, “Swing music is a wonderful expression of the human spirit, especially in terrible times,” and “It’s almost a religious experience, I am so in the moment.”
The young folks on dance floors today dress for comfort, not romance. They go to rock-step and swing out. No high heels or haute-couture dresses in those places! And yes, plenty of new young bands have sprung up to accommodate the dancers.
So yes, jazz is “eternally young…a style of music alive in the moment….” These young folks make music/dance central to their lives—the cake, not the frosting. They all talk about their “community.” (“We go out in groups.”) I like to think they can bring their joy and community to this darkened world. Spread jazz dance across the land!
It is a conundrum to keep the beat alive in these hard times. Jazz may bring rebirth—but these days, the nation leans the other way. Many young folks are lost in the woods, just as the MAGA crowd live in a lie they don’t see. Thus, the disappointment in their voice. Without hope, enchantment vanishes.
My basic philosophy is that jazz music can open a wormhole through darkness. It’s about signifying—what Albert Murray calls the “riff-style lifestyle.” Murray has said, “Riff-style flexibility and an open disposition towards the vernacular underlie the incomparable endurance of black soulfulness or humanity.’” Maybe such bottom-up freedom brings its own enchantment.
In dance, we have signifying in action, a way to turn things around, swing them in another direction. When dance went out of jazz after WWII, we lost something. But some young folks are bringing it back. There is still hope!
Loren Eiseley has written, “I have seen a tree root burst a rockface on a mountain or slowly wrench aside the gateway of a forgotten city.” This natural truth, I think, could take us far.
I don't think a recording of jazz can be more than a souvenir of the experience of a live, relatively unamplified jazz performance. I love making records and do the best job I can, but music is more than any recording. It is a comment on what is happening in the world at that moment.
“If they grow up to become jazz fans, they just might buy one of my books.” If they grow up to become real jazz fans, they just might buy all of your books.
Ted: "Jazz is romantic music, a young woman told me."
This is too easy. They hear a saxophone in a soundtrack, and that is the typical signifier for "sexy."
Oh, by the way, I AM a "geezer." As my Dad used to say: "You're only as old as you ARE."
Sign me up for more . . .
Hi Ted, thanks for another great article, I find myself having similar questions about my generation. When most people’s referents for jazz are La La Land, la vie en rose sound bites on tik tok or street performers in central park, it makes sense why they would associate jazz with romance. Funnily enough, the movie whiplash was my intro to jazz and for most of high school that’s what I thought it was. Only until I dug deeper into the music did I find what it was all about and now I think of jazz more in the way you described. Just for fun, here’s some replies to your questions from a young person’s perspective (22 yo): 1) young people love live music and seek it out all the time usually either at bars or clubs or shows of their favorite artists or bands when they’re in town, local band scenes are somewhat scarcer today, being a DJ is the hot thing 2) most gen z kids can pick out songs they like from bands from the 70s through the time of The Strokes but only the ones really into rock and its sub genres (all the way from jam bands to metal) could say who’s hot rn, personally I really like Loathe 3) anyone and everyone really, celebrities are going viral for missteps all the time but usually if they take themselves too seriously or are not self aware that creates a big target (think of the video of celebrities singing imagine) 4) i think most people my age love their parents music, there’s a real reverence and appreciation for 90s music in particular 5) I think everyone knows most K-pop is trash (at least modern K-pop, many already yearn for the older days when it was still good) that doesn’t detract from it being fun to listen and dance to 6) everyone knows Elvis but do they listen to him?… 7) definitely but will they listen to it instead of on their Spotify?… personally I love cds because that’s what my parents had I have my own collection that I listen when I drive Hope this was informative, cheers
It will be a sad day when folks cannot distinguish A.I. mashups of the greats from the real Sinatra, Davis, Vaughan, etc. Or maybe we're already there. Real music is more and more haute cuisine that must be studied to appreciate. Actually, it always was.
"There’s a death of enchantment in our culture..." Yup.